DRAWING CONCLUSIONS: AGNOSTIC TEACHER OF INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS
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1. What is your religious background?
I was raised Roman Catholic. As of now, I really haven’t done anything. I wouldn’t say atheist. I’d probably say – though I don’t like to define myself – apathetic agnostic. Meaning, I don’t know what’s out there; I don’t care, in terms of…I’m gonna let things happen. I’m not really one to put a label on myself. I hate labels actually, but once I read a definition of what an apathetic agnostic was, I thought it described me well. Because, I can’t make an extreme [statement] and say there is no God. And I can’t make an extreme [statement] and say there is only one God. Especially [considering how] I meet so many students from diverse backgrounds.
[Among] my Muslim students, [some believe] there’s one God named Allah; Muhammad is his prophet. That’s actually what’s written on the Saudi Arabia flag [hanging in my office]. It’s the principle belief in Islam: “There is no god but God, and Muhammad is the messenger of God.”
Allah is the same God that’s in the Old Testament, New Testament, and the Koran. In fact, Jesus is mentioned a lot in the Koran. They view him as a prophet, though not the Son. That’s the difference between Christianity and Islam and Judaism.
[Back to my religious background] my mother was Roman Catholic. My father was more Baptist. I didn’t find out till later that my grandfather on my dad’s side was actually a minister or a deacon. He stopped that for a while and didn’t raise his kids too religious. He kept his beliefs away from his kids. He passed away in December. My grandmother is still around and she goes to church in her nursing home every Sunday. She likes to sing and stuff.
All the way through college, I was in either a Catholic or Christian institution. K-5, I was in public schools. Then I went to Catholic school in 6-12. And then I went to Neumann University. It’s of the Franciscan tradition. I really enjoyed my experience there. But, about High School or so, I think a lot of it came down to a lot of phony Christians [I knew]. People who would put on a nice front on Sunday morning, but by Sunday night they were doing drugs, getting in fights, and whatnot. Just faking their beliefs. It kind of got to me. That, and all the traditions in Catholicism. The whole Eucharis…that just seems so weird. {laugh} Stand up, sit down, kneel. A lot of the traditions seem kind of awkward. So I kind of went away from that.
2. Do you currently practice a religious faith? If not, why?
I currently don’t practice in the traditional sense. The one thing I do like in learning about Catholicism was Jesus. I thought he was a really outstanding guy. You know, I think the idea of the Golden Rule is cool. And if you look at other religions, it’s there. It’s in Buddhism. It’s in all the Western thoughts. The idea of treating other people as yourself – being a good person – is one thing I’ve taken away from religion. Just be good. {laugh} By practicing, that’s kind of what I do…just being good on a daily basis.
I take that into my practice of teaching, just meeting with [international] students. Part of what I do at this job is a lot of student-advising. So, students who have issues, I try to help them. Sometimes it’s a little overwhelming. {laugh} I have to remember they’re here in another country. I’m their lifeline. What happens to me when I travel by myself? So I treat them the way I’d need to be treated in their country.
3. What comes to mind when you think about God?
The first thing you get is the Far Side comic image, you know? The big white beard and long white hair. But I think that’s also been something instilled into us. But, maybe just a benevolent being. The idea that we need something to look forward to. Hope is a good thing. I find with a lot of religious people, that hope is something that gives them purpose in life. So that’s one way to look at it. When you think of God, you think of hope and something to live for. And I think that’s why I can’t be completely atheist.
I’m open to different views. I just can’t find a definitive definition. That’s when things get a little scary in terms of fundamentals. People who are fundamental in any religion scare me the most. Because they can take their views to an extreme. You can see that in Christianity, with the Westboro Baptist Church. They’re insane. But you also see that in Islam with the Taliban in Iran. And you can see that in Buddhism among some monks. Atheists even, [can be extreme] in their worldview.
I’m still learning. I respect other people’s views. I like to take in experiences. I just got back from Korea. I was only there a few days, doing some recruitment for ELI, but while I was there I actually made it to a Buddhist temple, and it was awesome. It was a really great meditative experience for me. There were bells and chanting monks. It was interesting. So I’m open to spiritual experiences. I’d like to have my Saudi students take me to masque. I don’t know if I’m allowed. I just don’t want to define anything just yet.
4. What comes to mind when you think about Satan?
I feel that it might not exist. {laugh} If I were to subscribe to an all-powerful, omnipresent God who loves everybody, why would there be punishment in Hell? One thing I’ve read is that there is no Hell. It goes with the Buddhist concept of death and rebirth. Suffering and pain is what you’re experiencing right now in this process. I like that concept better than saying you’re going to Heaven if you accept that there is God, or you’re going to Hell.
What about the people who lived before the Bible was written? It wasn’t written right away. It was written for rules and guidelines. There is a lot of fear, you know? I feel that we’re in a different time, when we don’t need to take that ideology.
There is evil. I’m not gonna say there’s not. But I think the idea of a Hell and Satan…just isn’t there.
5. What comes to mind when you think about Heaven?
If there is a Heaven – emphasis on “if” – I think it’s a place we can all transcend to. A place we all will get to eventually. Maybe some people go at a different pace, but we can get there.
[When we get there] maybe we’re not humans anymore, in terms of our bodies. I don’t know. We’d be everything and nothing at the same time. Just beings. All of humanity of all of history is there. Like steam vapors or orbs of light, to put a picture to it. I don’t know. That concept appeals to me better than clouds and angels and harps. It’s more of one giant consciousness.
I don’t know what we’d do there. I’ve never thought too much about it. It would be an eternity, right? I don’t know.
6. What comes to mind when you think about Hell?
Like I said, I don’t see it as a possibility. If anything, Hell is what we live in [now]. There is a lot of evil in the world. It’s a disgusting place sometimes. Just think about your daily encounters with people. There’s a lot of negativity. At the same time, there is duality…there are positive things [too]. But just walk down the street and something bad could be happening. You name it. So that could be one way we look at Hell.
If I’m going to subscribe to a belief, I like the Buddhist concept of death and rebirth. Eventually you’ll get it right. It’s like playing a video game; you’re Mario and you’re trying to kill these goombas or get to the next level and save the princess, but it takes you so many lives (or continues) before you can move forward. I would feel the same way about people who are characteristically evil. [Instead of them going to a Hell] eventually it would dawn on them.
7. What comes to mind when you think about the Bible?
I think it’s flawed at this point. You know, if you look at the history of the Bible, at one point, it was definitely needed. And if you think of the area it [originally] reached, it wasn’t a worldwide document like it is now. At that time, it was written in one language with a [specific] purpose. It went through several rewrites and many different versions. The Old Testament, New Testament, and Koran have all three been translated into so many languages…and I know, things get lost in translation. For example, a couple days ago an [international] student was writing an essay using an [electronic] translator, translating Chinese words and expressions and sentences into English, and it was not at all what he was trying to say. You could not understand what was being said. So I’m pretty sure things have gotten lost in translation from the Bible’s original pure focus into what we’re looking at centuries later, to the point where – you know, people are corrupt. You look at the history of churches, especially the Roman Catholic Church…they’ve corrupted the Saint James Version in order to guide people a certain way; collect money so they become this giant institution that controls people through the Bible. They say, “This is how it’s always been written.” You look at Vatican II in the 60’s when things went from Latin to English – and are you sure that’s what these rules always were? When I think about religious scripts, I think that there are things that have gotten corrupted over time.
8. What comes to mind when you think about Jesus?
Like I said, I think he’s a righteous guy. Whether he existed or not is something I don’t know. But the concept of Jesus is awesome. You see the concept of Jesus in many different religions. This savior who is infallible but at the same time, willing to help people. Jesus was one who would lay down with the lepers, right? I think a lot of people who claim to be following in Jesus’ footsteps don’t. You can see that in the way they treat other people. For example, a big issue is gay marriage right now. Jesus probably would have been okay with it. He would have accepted gay people and hung out with them. I think that’s one thing that can get lost by people who practice that faith. They don’t practice what was preached.
I’m not sure if Jesus was a real historical figure, because I haven’t really looked into [the] evidence. I know there are things like the Shroud of the Turin; and documents that say he existed. But was he the Son of God? That’s another thing. If Jesus resurrected from the dead, that would be proof. But I wasn’t there. I can’t see it with my own eyes. It was written in the Bible and I don’t know if it was written anywhere else. I don’t know.
9. What comes to mind when you think about the purpose of life?
Biologically? Reproduce. {laugh} Biologically, the purpose of life is for our species to continue. And that’s how it has been for any species. You look at a virus, and its job is to infect people and reproduce and survive.
What we do with that purpose though – because we’re intelligent beings – is a little bit different. We’re not on the same level as other animals. We may have corrupted our purpose. {laugh} We’ve taken for granted a lot of the things we have, and have destroyed a lot of things through centuries. Back to the topic of religion, a lot of wars are caused because of religious differences. {laugh} If we look at the Crusades and the Inquisition, or our current Holy War, the Taliban attacking the United States…all because of religious indifference. {laugh}
As far as the purpose behind our reproduction, I don’t know. Maybe we were just a fluke. There’s life on this planet, [maybe] there’s life on other planets. I really don’t know. {laugh} I think that’s the one thing we’ve been trying to discover forever. I mean, if you look at Socrates and Plato…the essential question of all philosophy is, “Why?”
10. On a scale of 0 to 10 (0 being no confidence, and 10 being complete confidence), how would you rate the level of confidence you have that your beliefs (regarding questions 3-9) are accurate?
Zero. {laugh} These are just my beliefs. There might be people with similar beliefs, and a lot of the things I believe are founded on other things I’ve read and discovered for myself. But I’m just one person in a sea of billions. I cannot say at all that I’m accurate. I can’t honestly say anybody’s accurate.
11. What would you say have been the biggest obstacles in your search for truth?
[Considering] the fact that the world is how it is, and there are many thousands of different beliefs, [it’s challenging] trying to figure out if there’s one that’s accurate.
One hang-up is that my beliefs [seems to] change every couple of years. At one point, if you had interviewed me with these questions, I would have given you cookie-cutter responses that came from my upbringing through CCD [Confraternity of Christian Doctrine], and grade school, and going to church, and doing confession and all of that. And I would have said, “There’s only one God. You follow the Ten Commandments. And Jesus died for our sins,” and all of that. But, I mean, a lot of that has changed [for me] through growing and experiencing my worldview being completely different than the way it was 20…18 years ago.
12. Is there anything you’re afraid you would have to change or give up if you were to become a Christian?
Absolutely. There’s a lot. One of the definite things would be having to subscribe to one view. I don’t think I would ever want to make that commitment. Just based on my experience meeting with [students from around the world], and seeing that there’s more than just one view.
I don’t want to be pushed toward something. Maybe if I discover it on my own. Sure.
13. Hypothetically, if you were to stand before God today, how would you feel about meeting Him?
I’m confident that if I were to stand before God, and if there were a Heaven, I would be accepted. I would think I’d done enough good deeds in my life. I would feel that I’m a righteous person.
Going back to the idea that God’s supposed to be this benevolent being, he’s supposed to love everybody. We were created in his image, according to the Bible. Why would there be a problem if I follow those doctrines? Just because I don’t necessarily go to church doesn’t mean that [he wouldn’t accept me]. And also, I’m going to be confident that there isn’t going to be a Hell at all. I don’t see that as a possibility.
14. Hypothetically, on what basis do you believe God will or will not accept you into Heaven?
“Are you ready or are you not ready?” That’s what it would come down to, hypothetically. “Are you ready or do you still have a lot more to learn?” I might have more to learn. If it was between staying or reincarnating in order to do additional work, I’m not saying I’m as holy as some people.
15. If you could ask God one question, what would it be?
Probably the question I can’t answer for you: “What’s the purpose? {laugh} Why?”
16. If you could ask 1,000 Christians one question, what would it be?
“Why Christianity? What drove you towards that belief?” “What makes you so sure?” I’d want to know if they were brought up that way and that’s the only thing they’ve ever known, or did they hit a dark point in their life and finally say, “Christ is the path to follow”?
17. If you could ask 1,000 people who are not Christians one question, what would it be?
“What do you believe?”
18. Would you be interested in participating in an Investigative Faith Study at your convenience?
I would like to hear what you believe. That’s because I’m a curious person. That’s why I became a teacher. With all the international students I work with, I’m curious to know what people know, and what their experiences are.
You won’t convert me. {laugh} I’m gonna tell you right now. But I wouldn’t mind meeting with you and asking you these questions. That wouldn’t bother me.
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